Homosexuality and Judaism
Over shabbas dinner this week somehow the conversation got around to homosexuality. One person at the meal was explaining how it made him uncomfortable when he has a client who is gay. While trying to be politically correct, it was still assumed that there is something "not normal" about gay people and that they are doing something wrong. Some people at the meal even questioned if there is such a thing as being gay at all.
I am not gay and do not have any close friends who are either. Still, Judiasm's reaction to homosexuality is something that has always, and still does make me feel extremely uncomfortable. Trembling Before G-d is a movie where gay Orthodox Jews discuss their experiences, and I can't even imagine what it must be like for them.
Accepting people for who they are and the ability for everyone to express themselves is something that I believe strongly in. Yet, from what I know there is no real way to interpret the Halachic view on homosexuality other than it is forbidden. To be honest, I don't understand how halacha, something that I live my life by can exclude an entire part of the population who act differently than mainstream society just because of their sexual preference.
Whenever I'm discussing the subject of homosexuality, my response is always, "halacha aside, I don't see a problem with it"...or some such variation. The more I think about it though how can it be "halacha aside" im not one of those pick and choose people, at least I try not to be. and it just is so inherently inconsistent with my life to even consider that gay people are "abominations" or some such derogatory name for their actions. At the same time though, the fact that halacha does think that is something that I personally have a problem with but am not really sure how to reconcile the two.
posted by another frum blog @ 11:26 AM
6 Comments:
sex is about being fruitful and multiplying... last time i checked you needed a man and a woman. that's the only thing i can think for this prohibition.
true. and I have thought about that, but sex is not viewed any differently if one partner is infertile.
The Torah seems to imply that it is the natural order of things that the male be with the female. If the only reason were procreation I don't think the act of sexbetween men would be called an "abomination."
This would also help to explain why sex is not viewed nay differently between a man and a woman if one partner is infertile. Also, Hashem ultimatlely gives us things, right? So medical diagnosis of infertility, from a hashkafic perspective doesn't mean we are to accept that din and not try because inevitibly it is up to Hashem.
I did see "Trembling before Gd" in Jerusalem actually. It was heartbreaking. The persecution those men and women felt was terrible. Just a techniclity here, but being gay isn't forbidden, the act of sexual intercourse between men, the act itself is forbidden. I don't think halacha states we should treat them poorly and not accept them as people. I don't know any rabbi that I interract with who would endorse treatment of people this way. They cannot endorse that act though, it is a fine line.
You ask the question why would people be given these feelings, urges...if they are forbidden? Isn't that all of us in a way? There are 613 commandments that test us. That's where the whole reward/punishment/overcoming ourselves type thing comes in. now granted for a gay person it is even more tough because it is who they are.
I think an importan distiction is that people aren'tbad or wrong but the torah classifies actions as bad or wrong.
hope this helped.
You are conflicted because you allow society, rather than Torah, to dictate right and wrong. Do we understand the reason behind every mitzvah? Are sacrifices cruelty to animals? I'm the PETA crazies would say so, yet we pray for their restoration every day. What's wrong extra-martial sex between consenting adults? Yet halachacly (in some cases) it incurs the death penalty.
Just as a little child doesn't understand why his mother won't let him have that candy, so too we must believe that certain behaviors are wrong and detrimental, simply because Hashem in his infinite wisdom has told us so.
One way to look at it is that homosexual activity is forbidden... like many other things. Is someone an "abomination" if they don't keep shabbat? What about if they eat treif? What if they leave Judaism entirely?
afb: i think your instincts are right on derech. after all, clearly sex is not only about procreation. plus, let us not forget 50% or more of the frum population = women, who technically have no pru urvu chiyuv. This then brings us to the obvious = lesbians. Hard to argue for much more than a derabbanan there. It's also hard to argue to picture a G-d who would create people who love and desire like this just for a nisayon. Finally, I think that people who think that being queasy about homosexuals is anything more than homophobia (vs. halacha) should realize how much chukas ha-goy is involved in that reaction. After all, yiddishkeit is not squeamish about sexual desire in the way much of "frum" contemporary christianity is, esp. in the USA. I think that many frum people's homophobia is influenced by nonJewish values and has nothing to do with halacha.
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